I am tempted to click the "flag as inappropriate" the image above when I realized that by virtue of eliminating the option zone Sandburg high school will itself lie completely within the Stagg mandated zone!

We have no kids and have paid high taxes to support these schools for 30 years the one benefit we looked forward to was being so close to a good school where kids can walk to school for resale purposes. We're in Mill Creek if this change takes place our taxes will still stay high and our resale value will decrease even further. People with kids buy homes in this area because of the fact Sandburg is a good school and their kids can walk there. Getting really tired of this nonsense If I had kids and moved here for that reason I'd be furious there's no good reason to to get rid of this option. If there aren't that many students attending Sandburg currently from our area leave both options open. This isn't the city.

If there is an option there how about the other side of Orland which would be closer to andrew... a border is a border end of story. if you want an exception u should pay the full tuition of that school.

This does seem like the most reasonable idea. The area in Palos went to "choice" years ago. Some thought that wasn't fair. Why should some residents get a choice where they want to go to school? There will always be someone who is unhappy. If people didn't like the choice back then and were fearful it might result in the change of boundaries, why would they move there? Or for those who have lived there a long time, why wouldn't they have chosen to move when the "choice" was instituted? It seems there was plenty of time for residents to move if they were so worried. As far as the other part of the boundary change, it makes the most sense also. It seemed crazy for the Tinley grade schools to then be bussed to Orland for high school. It stinks if you are affected, but what is the board to do? The enrollment dropping has been public knowledge for quite some time now. Just grateful, the district didn't build another school a few years back like many wanted!!

JSuzeH, I don't think they are thinking about bussing the tinley district 146 kids only fron central middle school to Orland. They said they would go to Andrew. (if i am reading the article correctly) Typically they would go to Tinley Park High School. This is the first I heard about any of this. My kids are currently in district 146 elementary school. I am a little concerned that they may go to Andrew. I like that they would have gone to tphs, it's a smaller school.

^ you've just confirmed many peoples theory that Sandburg kids think they're better than anyone. District 230 is in the top 8% of the state. Not just Sandburg, all THREE schools as a whole. There are amazing teachers at each of the schools, not just Sandburg. If everyone is so worried about their kids going to Stagg or Andrew, I'm sure Marist or another private school would be glad to take your money. Meanwhile, instead of teaching our kids to do their best, let's teach them to look down on others for not going to the "Elite Dist 230 school". Cmon.

http://www.usa.com/school-district-1708400.htm

Carl Sandburg Class of 1992!!

Perception

I think you can agree with me that All the Dist 230 schools are
equal . However I think it is parents like you that foster great kids
who should be given the lion’s share of credit for the success of
all our schools.
The point I was trying to make is that there is something wrong
when a kid who lives 300 feet from Sandburg’s door will have to
ride a bus during rush hour the five miles to Stagg.
While on the other hand a kid that lives at 183 and Will Cook road
Is bussed over six miles to Sandburg instead of the three miles to Andrew.
Where is the logic in that?

If I'm understanding correctly everyone has their area H.S. but some will have the option to go to Sandburg instead. I know Palos Pk was like this years ago but most students did choose Stagg (that I'm aware of). Yes Sandburg is a bigger H.S. & as we know Stagg,Andrew & Sandburg are the same district with great teaching to our kids, but each school does have their own "report card" & in most subjects Sandburg does rank higher with Andrew only alittle bit lower, Stagg is behind both. So why wouldnt more parents choose the better school? My concern is if Sandburg has almost 4,000 kids in there school & add on more areas with the option to go there how will it not become over crowded? Something tells me this will be passed & if thats the case why is Sandburg the only option, How about make Andrew one also? This is the 1st I'm hearing of this & do not agree at all.

As someone who's had kids go through Stagg (and graduated from there myself) and having subsitute taught at all three schools, I can say that the quality of instruction is about the same at all three schools, mediocre as compared with demographically similar districts in the Western suburbs like Lyons Township, Naperville and Aurora.

While the demographics at Andrew and Sandburg are pretty similar (few people of "color") Stagg is extermely diverse in economic groups, multi-national students and kids from Chicago whose extended families ahve gotten guardianship so that they can have their grandkids attend Stagg. It does create some issues, but by and large I think it's handle pretty well. With 16% of its student economically disadvantaged, a point or two difference between Andrew and Sandburg really isn't unexpected, but school report cards seem to show that subgroups in all three schools seem to perform comparably.

One of the biggest differences I've seen is in the illegal drug culture at the different schools. It seems like Sandburg has about the largest drug disribution system, with many "rich kids" running drug delivery operations where drugs are delivered to student homes much like pizzas. You call they deliver. "Bullying" seems to be a bigger issue at Sandburg and Andrew, and I've heard more parents complain about physical threats and intimidation of theri children more at Sandburg than Stagg, while hall fights, curiously mostly among girls, seems to be a bigger problem at Stagg.

the bottom line is that you can get a decent edcuation at any of the 230 schools if you work at it, despite the sometimes recalcitrant faculty. The biggest question is the kind of cultural environment in which you want your kids to be educated; "white bread", "multicultural" or "street"!LOL

JAY- You said your child finished at Andrew but only because of the attendance declined. In your situation was Stagg more equipped with teaching/technology for a special needs child?

I'm not sure what "The biggest question is the kind of cultural environment in which you want your kids to be educated; "white bread", "multicultural" or "street" means? I didnt choose Sandburg for my kids because of any of what you stated it was my district school & thats where my kids went. Drugs, Bullying, girls fighting etc. happens every where, some worse than others but this isnt about that. Yes all 3 schools are the same district but every school no matter where you live has its own report card & I'm not saying any of our schools are bad...As someone else stated... It makes no sense to bus someone to sandburg yet should be going to Stagg/Andrew. Im not understanding the reason for all this...None of this makes any sense.

Regarding the Sandburg/Stagg "option zone" :

I notice the discussion thread going off track and veering into disputes over which school is "better". Please know that the residents who live in this zone (myself included) are not in any way implying that one school is "better" than the other.

We are concerned about keeping the option zone primarily because of location (we live in the immediate perimeter surrounding Sandburg). The option was clearly put into place for a reason back in 1989. I am not sure why, but I am glad they did, and I was banking on it. Many of us purchased our homes based on this option. I even called the district and asked if this option will remain and they told me there were "no plans at all to change it". We are also concerned about our property values as the option zone obviously is attractive to a prospective buyer. It is a huge turnoff to find out that you’d have to drive past the local school and go 45 minutes away! Who would assume that our high school would NOT be the one we can SEE it out our front door-- Or who’s football games we can hear when our windows are open.

Let’s be honest. The boundaries are a total mess. Not just for us, for many. Frankly, I think the school board needs to re-examine the entire thing before putting more band-aids on the problem.

Please refrain from school comparisons as this is NOT the issue.

Thank you,
Kelly Oliven

Stagg is always looked at as the p.o.s. hs of the dist because of the diversity. All these rich snob parents need to realize its a equal rights country now. Dont like it send your kids to private school. Stagg is a great school, and no school is perfect if you cant understand that each one has their negative issues get out of your little bubble.

Too bad your spolied brat children have to be bussed 6 miles instead of 1. Suck it upp almost all of the Palos Heights kids in d230 live closer to Shepard but are out of dist and have the same lengthy drive to stagg.

I think more of the boundaries, than just the current ones on the table, need to be revisited. Like others have said, it never made sense to me that kids south of 167th street went to Sandburg when Andrew was just a few minutes away. Seems if they want to balance attendance, pretty much everything should be reviewed.

This is getting out of hand, as Kelly said the school report cards are not the issue & neither is the problems/race someone mentioned. I did respond in regards to report cards because someone posted it so I was curious. I know we are ALL 1 district but my point was IF one of the other schools wasnt as good as Sandburg in any way & you had an OPTION wouldnt you choose the better school? Before I moved I did my research & I moved to Orland because of District 135 & District 230 & I by far am Rich or a snob & this is why we all get false info at times. Everyone in Orland is not Rich but Im sure there is many that are in Orland, Tinley, Palos....Palos Pk looks a bit expensive......Back to the Option zoning it makes no sense. I do not understand who even suggested this?

I did my homework too and #118 with Stagg was the best choice for my kids-not Sandburg.

Decisions

Palos students did not have a high school. All of my older cousins
had to secure a voucher from the school board, which did exist.
They then had to find a High school which would take them. These orphan
students went to Argo, St Leo, Longwood Academe, most went to
Lyons Township. Orland did have a High School starting in the 1930’s.
It was so overcrowded that by 1950 classes were held in rented rooms
all over town.
In the early 1950’s these two townships established Consolidated District
230.Palos and Orland created one of the largest school districts in Illinois
It goes from 87th street on the North to 183rd street on the south.
Harlem is the eastern boundary then west to Will Cook road.
the exact geographic
Center of the district is the corner of 135th and Lagrange road.
That is where the far thinking founders placed Sandburg, right smack
in the middle of the district. By the early 60’s there was a population explosion.
At this point the critical decision was made to build Stagg High School
instead of expanding Sandburg. I remember the reason was that kids
should attend a local high school. The Stagg boundary was set at the Cal
Sag canal .this divided Dist 118.While Palos Park and Palos Heights
stayed with Sandburg. The shock came in 1989 when all 118 students were
transferred to Stagg except those of us who were close enough to Sandburg
to stand up during football games and join in the school song.

My husband and I moved to Orland Park for the excellent schools. For those of you who are stereotyping: We are far from rich. We both work full-time and gave up some things so that our kids could attend Sandburg. Our kids are not snotty brats, If we were told that our kids would be required to attend Stagg you'd better believe we'd be fighting it.

I moved to Sandburg Glen nearly 7 years ago. When my husband and I purchased our home, we put neighborhood schools at the top of our priority list. There was never any indication that the district would consider removing the option of Sandburg for our neighborhoo. If there had been, we would have looked elsewhere. Bussing kids 6 miles away when my kids can walk to school is a waste of tax dollars. As far as I am concerned, proximity to schools should be the first consideration when assigning schools. The students in Tinley and Oak Forest are closer to Andrew, so rezoning that area makes sense. Rezoning Sandburg Glen, Southmore, and Mill Creek doesn't because the kids can walk to school and their are very few kids in the neighborhoods to begin with so the impact on population at Sandburg is minimal

Advocate what is your problem with Stagg? Quit being a snob, and maybe do some research to see that Stagg is not that bad. The Sandburg area is more well off than the Stagg area. My comment about being spolied is about the driving distance. Like I said most Palos Heights students live closer to Shepard HS than Stagg. I lived in Palos Hts west old town a 5 min drive to Shepard and a 15 min to Stagg, but if you live west of Harlem you go to Stagg because of the different school districts.

Stagg is a very good school. But the snobs are the ones thinking it is a piece of crap.

There will be a special board meeting addressing the new attendance boundaries tonight (Tuesday, 9/18/12) Visit www.d230.org for agenda and details.

Stagg parents should especially be encouraged to attend, since the school board consistently shortchanges the Stagg area on district oversight and recommendation committees. The Education committee has three community members from Andrew, FOUR from Sandburg, and only TWO from Stagg.

On the Building and Finance Committee, there are three from Andrew, three from Sandburg, and only two from Stagg. There are supposed to be three from each school, but when vacancies occur for Stagg, President Grabowski (Andrew) and Superintendent Gay refuse to announce the vacancy or appoint any of the well qualified applicants for the position. The Stagg committee members they DO appoint either rarely show up or virtually never have comments about ways to better serve the Stagg community.

Those the President appointed for the other schools are active and vociferous about affecting policy for the improvement of their schools.

If you get the idea that Stagg is considered the "poor stepchild" of the district by the board...YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE MONEY!

This is about our homes proximity to Sandburg. In no way is this about one school being superior to the others. I do not feel that Stagg is a “bad” school. I don’t feel that Andrew is either. I feel quite the opposite. In fact, the first requirement that we had when looking to buy a home was that it be in the District 230 zone. To find a house across the street from one of these high schools was extremely appealing to us and that was the reason we ultimately chose to buy here. This is not about which school is the shorter bus ride for our spoiled children. We are talking about walking 2 blocks versus having to ride a bus for 45 minutes. I would imagine that anyone living within walking distance to Stagg or Andrew would feel the same way.
Why wouldn’t I fight for that? If that makes me a snob, I am happy to be one.

As advocate said she moved to Orland because of schools, and thats why we did too. If I wanted my kids to go to a different school I wouldnt of moved within Dist. 135 & 230 specifically for Sandburg. So yes if my kids had to transfer to Andrew or Stagg I would be mad also. I didnt choose those. It doesnt mean we think the schools are not good. As to "spoiled brats" its not because they have to ride the distance its a waste of money & makes no sense if your closer to another school. Theres a small section of Oak Forest that goes to Sandburg please tell me how that makes any sense? Stop making an argument out of something a person chose.

District 230's boundaries encompass a smalll section of land, and homes, located southeast of 159th and Harlem. The students in this section currently attend Sandburg HS. The revisions D230 is considering would allow the students here to attend Andrew HS.

I am a graduate of D230, and I attended Stagg. Many years ago, my parents moved to that section of Palos Park that is in that option zone, so my siblings opted to attend Sandburg as incoming freshmen - I stayed with Stagg. From our experience, I can say that there was no noticeable difference in the education I received versus my siblings.

I currently live in District 230, and we chose our location based specifically on being in D230. We are currently in an option zone. I don't really care which of the three schools our children attend - Sandburg, Stagg, or Andrew. They are all great schools. Maybe test scores at Sandburg are a little higher right now, but think about how much better the learning environment will be for a child who is at a less crowded school, with lower pupil-teacher ratios. Please don't rule out that possibility that the lower pupil-teacher ratios could lead to better academic performance. Also consider, for those kids involved in sports, that a less crowded school also means less competition for slots on the various sports teams.

How do we apply to be on one of these committees?

Rock,

If your correct and it sounds like you are, Dr Gay should get a WAKE UP CALL.

Time to march PARENTS.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Isnt it all political? Which I find ridiculous also. Most of our boundries make no sense when it comes to Dist. 135 & 230. You have kids who live further than myself who go to 1 school yet I'm closer to that same school and my kid goes somewhere else. And we get no bus serive unless we pay. Why do you need to be on a committee? We as residents have no say at all?

It's time we cut the BS on this and became honest about what this "redistricting" is all about.
It's not about serving the students better, nor making the attendance centers more convenient for families.
I'ts ALL about the admisntration, Board and Union trying to keep the faculty and administration overstaffed in the face of plummeting enrollment.
Look at the school report cards for district 230 at www.isbe.net. State average class size is about 19.2, but it's only 14.6 at Andrew, 16.3 at Sandburg, and 16.8 at Stagg. Schools like those outperforming us in Naperville (203 and 204) are succeeding with similar demographic student bodies with class size in the 24 range.

Since administrator prosperity is a priority in 230, it should be noted that large districts with large schools such as 230 typically have about one administrator for every 240 students, but iin some cases that ratio is as much as one administrator for over 300 students. In district 230 we have one administrator for every 153 students, a rate about 40% higher than state average.

Here's the district's dilemma; they overtax and charge excessive fees in order to maintain overstaffing, but Andrew class sizes are getting so low that teachers will have to transfer (the faculty at schools to which they would be transferred are not very happy about that) or be let go.

Sending more students to Andrew will keep more faculty and admins working there. That's what this is all about, folks, not the good of families!

I agree that the district should cut back on staff in alignment with enrollments, that's the fiscally prudent thing to do, but I don't think it should be at the expense of educational quality.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if test scores at some of the other districts are better because the teachers are actually better, or if they just teach to the test? Hmmm . . . . gaming the system never happens, right?

Why don't we thing about the student’s educational needs first, instead of property values, long bus rides and social issues. District 230’s board’s decision should be based on the student’s ability to receive a quality education regardless which school they attend. Andrew students should not have to suffer with limited choices.

Do you believe that a student's needs are best met by spending long periods of time on a bus in transit each day when they could instead be spending time studying? Do you think that a family's evenings are well spent in transit retrieving their children from after school activities? Do you think that there is nothing for students to gain from the feeling of community that is gained from attending a school that is integrated into the social fabric of a neighborhood? Do you think that it is wise to spend money for unnecessary busses? Do you think that families shouldn't work to preserve one of their biggest assets, their home? I attended a small high school within walking distance as a kid. What I may have missed out on in extracurriculars was more than made up for in the sense of community that comes with a close knit neighborhood school. Being a small school didn't mean that there were no extracurriculars, it just meant that our community had to be creative in providing activities for kids. Families were well attuned to issues that arose, there was a strong sense of volunteerism, and teachers and administration knew their students extraordinarily well. In essence, bigger isn't always better. Sometimes bigger leads to unnecessary bureaucracy that can actually impede in the ability to differentiate for students. When we planned to send our children to a high school within walking distance, we were doing what we thought was best for our children's educational needs.

Its a little hard to NOT think about property value, what kind of comment is that? Long bus rides & social issues is a problem too. What kid is happy to do that everyday? Thats a part of suffering to a kid (my kids don't like the bus & we are not far from school) ? Most people move within boundries for a reason. How is Andrew students suffering with limited choices? But Tatiana said it good so no need to write the same things. This doesn't make sense but I'm sure we have no say anyway. I just heard about it when the article was posted.

I think everyone is missinga couple big points here. 1. All three schools have different capacities. 2: the boundaries of the district as a whole (not the individual school boundaries) are not equidistant. 3: Population density is not distributed evenly across the district. Put all three of these things together and guess what happens? You get situations where some kids have to go to a school that's not the closest to their house. The only way around this would be a perfect world scenario where those three limitations don't exist. And for the parents that moved here to go to a certain school, things change over the 15 years between when a cold is born and when they enter high school. All that being said, I admit no one likes boundary changes. I graduated class of 2006 from Sandburg living in Tinley Park in dist. 146. Geographically TPHS and Andrew were closer schools, and only about 20 of my middle school classmates went to Sandburg, but I loved the school and wouldn't trade it for anything. I will say though that I think all 3 are quality schools.