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Village Board Approves Lux Apartments Development Plan and Bond Financing

In front of a packed house, Orland Park trustees approve with one dissenting vote, but also agreed to find ways to lessen the financial risk.

 

Updated, 11:05 p.m. Monday

Catcalls and shouts from unhappy Orland Park residents did not sway the village board Monday night, as both the development plan and complex financing system for the Ninety 7 Fifty On the Park luxury apartments project were approved.

But the approval did come with a new caveat introduced during the meeting. The Orland Park Village Board also unanimously voted to have village staff pursue ways to reduce the “debt and gap financing participation” of putting up $63 million in bonds to cover loans and incentives for the construction.

Trustee Brad O’Halloran was the lone dissenting vote on the redevelopment agreement and the financing plan for the apartment complex. He said he supports the project itself, but not the financing plan.

While a few residents voiced their concerns and misgivings about the project, it was the trustees who carried most of the meeting as they responded to criticism from a recent open house and a lengthy public forum.

Trustee Kathy Fenton, who also chairs the development services committee, spoke at length, first firing back at people who criticized the village for not working harder to fill vacant business spaces, citing that less than 5 percent of Orland Park’s business spaces are empty. She also listed several businesses that set up shop in spaces left behind, including Meijer in the former Value City space, hhgregg in Sports Authority’s old home, and Johnny’s Charhouse in the former Canoe Club building.

Fenton then described vacant spots that soon will be built upon, including the northwest corner of 144th Place and LaGrange Road, where Miroballi Shoes will soon build a new plaza space.

 “I am not a person to jump into things,” Fenton said. “If anything, I am a pessimist. But these are very proactive, not reactive, individuals sitting up here.”

Trustee James Dodge tackled the issue most talked about: whether residents will see the costs on their tax bills if the complex fails. He described simulations he asked staff to run 10 years down the line—when developer Flaherty and Collins is scheduled to have repaid the village’s investment.

“If Flaherty and Collins goes to hell in a handbasket, we, because we are the lender, step right in and control the asset, which will be more than the loan,” Dodge said. “We will have more than enough money in the home rule sales tax to make sure this never hits your tax bills.”

O’Halloran said he changed his mind on the financing plan for the project after Standard and Poor’s downgraded the United States’ credit rating because of “too much debt.”

“And here we sit to double out debt,” O’Halloran said about the financing plan. “It’s too much risk at this time.”

McLaughlin complimented staff and board members for the “tremendous amount of time spent over the last several years working on getting to this point.” He said he will work with staff to find ways to reduce the financial risk.

While some attendees clapped after the trustees spoke, others booed and called out while they were speaking, including one man who said, “Don’t treat us like a piggy bank.”


Related Topics: Flaherty and Collins, Main Street Triangle, Ninety 7 Fifty on the Park, Orland Park Luxury Apartments, and Orland Park development

Andrea Williams

9:48 pm on Monday, September 19, 2011

Sad day for the residents of Orland Park.

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Kathy Quilty

10:17 pm on Monday, September 19, 2011

I agree Andrea! All I have to say is that I most likely will move out of here in a few years. My youngest is a sophomore at Sandburg. When he graduates, hopefully the housing market will be better so I can get out of Cook County ... and maybe even Illinois!

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Karen Foley

7:02 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathy Good Luck. My house in Orland has been on the market for months. This market is not good for any real estate development....even rental units.

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Paul

8:45 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Couldnt disagree more!!! never been more proud!!

McGinnisSlough

10:01 pm on Monday, September 19, 2011

My only hope is that some good can come of this, that it wakes us up, and we finally get some regime change. I'm voting for Brad.

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Andrea Williams

10:42 pm on Monday, September 19, 2011

Unfortunately, the house has to be on fire to get the voters' attention. Now that blaze is burning, the next election should yield some different results. It's hard to look at that as a bright side though when you think of the mess they just got us into...

Sue N.

10:35 pm on Monday, September 19, 2011

Sad day for Orland residents is right! Total abuse of home rule power to me! Pretty insulting...its like they're telling residents we cant possible know whats good for us so they have to make these decisions for us. Sad, very sad day.

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Kathy Quilty

11:41 pm on Monday, September 19, 2011

Out with the old ..... in with the new??? Maybe that should be our new slogan for the next election! We need to find some people who will listen to the public ... on what we want ... on what is best for our town ... etc.

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John Paul

9:15 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathy, you sure didn't mind riding McLaughlin's coattails in April, did you. Now that you're safe for four more years, I guess you can turn on the people that got you re-elected. But then again, I've seen that movie before.

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Megan James

9:34 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

John Paul - You've made that comment towards Kathy before and it was uncalled for then & it's uncalled for now. I support anyone who can do their job without being a blinder-wearing supporter of McLaughlin. By her standing up for what she believes in regardless of any policitical affilation will get my vote!

People who think just because a person has a certain party endorsement them, means they have to always go along with what a few people in that party want, makes me sick! Holding an elected official should be all about doing what is best for the people in the community they represent, regardless of party affliation.

That's why nothing can be agreed upon in Congress in the State or in DC - everyone is afraid of standing up for what the people need and want because of fear of offending those who share their same party affliation. There should be more people like Kathy in elected office and then maybe our country wouldn't be in such an awful state!

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John Paul

12:11 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

All I'm saying is that if Kathy thought that McLaughlin needed to go, why did she accept his help? The same goes for Schussler, Gira and Ruzich; if they wre so bad, why did Kathy chose to run with them? It's not about blind loyalty, its about chosing who you want to run with. This Metra Triangle is not a new issue, the mayor has been firm on this. Kathy knew where he stood and could have opposed him, which she did after, not before he helped her get re-elected.

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Megan James

1:44 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathy - just disregard all JP's negativity against you. We all know you are doing a wonderful job on the school board which is why you were endorsed by McLaughlin. Not because to you promised to back him on every decision he made office. Sounds like now that JP is happy about getting his 9750 through, he's on to a creating a new policitical topic for his next blog.

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Andrea Williams

4:48 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I know what you meant JP, you just walked into that one and I couldn't resist. You are a good guy and a good sport. You make things around here more interesting - your blogs get the discussions going. I envy your ability to remain so collected when it is coming at you from all sides.

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Andrea Williams

6:53 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

The Patch asked me to reword one of my posts because some may have interpreted it as saying Dan McLaughlin literally "bought" Jim Dodge's vote last night. I certainly didn't mean to imply a brown bag of money was exchanged under the table between the two of them. Come on...I don't think our trustees are criminals folks, just misguided. It remains a fact and a matter of public record (see the IL BOE) that Jim Dodge has taken lots of campaign contributions from the Mayor - either for himself or for a slate. My point, in the context of this discussion about loyalty, is that McLaughlin has supported Dodge (via both money and endorsements) for so long that Dodge may have elevated his loyalty to his friend/supporter over his conservative political ideologies like limited government rather than private land seizure and debt-doubling government spending.

I also congratulated Kathy on voicing her opinion even though it was going against the political grain of her supporters (enter Dan McLaughlin again) and suggested the 5 village trustees that supported the mayor's scheme last night could learn something about community leadership from Quilty and O'Halloran.

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Kathy Quilty

8:12 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

John -- I have been vocal about Randy's since 2009 when I sent the first Letter to the Editor about it. I have never been quiet about how I feel about the triangle and never will be. McLaughlin and the trustees has done many good things for our town, but this is one mistake that I cannot agree with them. There is nothing wrong with saying my opinion. Again, I have always stated my opinion.

I recall a D135 board meeting with you a president that you would not allow other to talk. You ranted on and on about board members should be with you and if they weren't then you knew they were against you. People can always agree to disagree. I don't have to like everything our mayor and trustee do. I am an American citizen and have the right to free speech. As I stated before, I think our mayor and trustees have done some good things with our village, but the triangle is not one of them.

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John Paul

8:28 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathy, I have no problem with you speaking out against the 9750 project, that is your right. What I found interesting was your " out with the old, in with the new" comment and your comment about how you want to leave Orland Park now. If you feel " out with the old" why did you run with the "old"?

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Kathy Quilty

10:51 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

John Paul: I did not run with a specific party or group of people except Rick and Pat. We had ALL of the area mayors' support except for one who ran his own slate against us. It was not just Orland Park. We had Tinley Park, Palos Park, Palos Hills, Palos Heights, and Hickory Hills. We came together as a community ... for the students of D230 (which I might add your children attend).

John Fotopoulos

6:30 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

This is a perfect example of politicians not listening to the residents. I agree this is a sad day for Orland Park.

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John Fotopoulos

6:32 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I can say this the vote went down party lines. Six democrats to one republican.

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Kathy Quilty

7:32 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

John, I was under the impression that Jim Dodge is a Republican. But politics like "us against them" (aka Democrats vs. Republicans) does not belong in our local politics.

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Megan James

8:05 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Very true Kathy - But sadly, it appears most decisions in Orland lately, both in the Village and in the OPFD, all seem to be decisions based upon what will tick off the other party more instead of what really makes sense for residents in the long run.

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Andrea Williams

8:25 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathy, Jim forfeited his GOP membership card last night. Rumor has it that the GOP called him after the meeting and told him they wanted their card back. ;-)

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OPmom

7:04 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Kathy, you are correct and partisan politics will ruin this town. We live in a great town because there has been no republican vs. democrat and I hope the people who are trying to insert that into our local government fail. Like it or not the mayor and a majority of the trustees voted for this because they feel it is the right thing to do for the village. They very well could be wrong but the name calling and reputation slamming are uncalled for. I for one do not want Orland Park to turn into Washington DC with a bunch of right wing politicians holding tightly to their pledges and the left side wanting to spend everything we don't have and the two of them going after each other constantly. Congress has a 12% approval rating for a reason. Insert that here in Orland Park and we are doomed.

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Andrea Williams

9:01 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

McLaughlin is the president of the Orland Township Dems and Dodge was the last president of the Orland Township GOP. If these men do not want to align with the ideologies of the national political parties, so be it. If that is their choice however, maybe they should stay out of leadership positions within those organizations. No criticism of McLaughlin here, his actions align very well with his party politics.

We have leaders on the village board that have very strong ties to political parties. To say "D and R" politics don't play here is either ignorant or misleading. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, I'm just saying that it does.

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Andrea Williams

9:11 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

@OPmom - you are probably right about the trustees that voted for this plan believe it is the right thing to do. They have also shown they can hold their own - the Schussler/Gira letter had some pretty good daggers in it. I might not have agreed with alot of what they said, but I'm glad they finally engaged in the public discussion and spoke their mind. I wish we heard more discussion from all the trustees rather than lhaving the mayor stand alone as the public whipping post.

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OPmom

10:27 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Andrea - John Doria was president of the Orland Township GOP after Dodge. No matter, I do believe that people can be a part of a political party and also be flexible in their governing at the local level. Sorry if that seems ignorant or misleading to you but I'm allowed to have my opinions and express them.

OrlandMom

8:08 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I do not agree with Trustee Fenton stating that only 5% of Orland Park business spaces are empty. Drive around and see it has to be much higher than that. Some spots, like the old Linens and Things are currently holding a Halloween store but are empty the rest of the year. Both strip spaces behind Mimi's Cafe are completely empty. There are vacancies all over the area.
As for those who voted yes to this, they will never have my vote again, nor the vote of the rest of my household. If this project fails, as I suspect it will, I expect them all to resign for the mess they have created.

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Megan James

8:32 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I agree with you Marge on the Fenton's comments too. It was all political spin with a bunch of half-truths on stastistics they hoped the average citizen didn't have the time to check out the validity of.

Kathie

8:20 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Hey, we can all bitch and moan as much as we want. Our little
Political Ring here in Orland is just a reflection of the grander scale of the United States! This village, this state and this country has no reason for crying! Voting percentages in our elections are disgusting and an embarassment! People think their civic duty consists of getting up every day, turning on the coffee pot and flushing their toilets! (quoting a friend). Yes, I can say "I always vote!" I can also say, I often stand at the polls.... But my own shortcoming is that I can't convince even five or ten neighbors to get off their asses, go to the polls (open all day) and vote! We don't pay attention and wake up, when it is five minutes past "too late" on the issues!
CITIZENS! Don't blame the people who show up at the polls, blame it on the apathy of your families, neighbors and friends who have more excuses than time to invest on election days! Let's CHANGE our behavior and actually SHOW UP in November and March or April! Bring a friend--- bring a neighbor!

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Megan James

8:34 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I agree! I have been voting against everyone of these trustees & the Mayor in every election for as far back as I can remember, so at least I don't have the guilt of voting for them on my conscience. It is so discouraging how many people complain and never went out to vote. Plus it was like nails on the chalk board this last election when McLaughlin and Schuelsser claimed to have the majority of residents supporting them on this project because only about 3% of the the registered voters actually voted for them. This should prove that everyone should vote, and every vote matters, epsecially when you have a board that will hide behind Home Rule status as their reason for voting against what the majority of people really want.

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OrlandMom

9:16 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I'm with Megan. I've lived in Orland Park for 18 years now and have never voted for Mayor McLaughlin nor anyone on his Board.

Megan James

8:24 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

To all those saying they're done & want to move our of Orland....don't move out yet. Like someone else said, the real estate market is really bad right now, so you'll just be twiddling your thumbs for now. Instead, I have a better idea, lets all wait until the earliest of either the developers foreclosing on this, or in 2022 when this fails & the Bonds can't be paid off.

Then, we can all be like the demographic that 9750 supporters insist people will want to sell their homes to live here to avoid paying property taxes & live maintaince with a health club & salt water pool access. Then we can leave paying the higher property taxes to all the blind sheep who supported this soon-to-be-another-failed-Orland-Park- project.

Course...on second thought...maybe you might want to consider selling before that. Common sense tells me that although they claim our property taxes won't go up ....your taxes will still go up anyway. More people = increased need for police & fire protection & then more kids in schools. Can't you just see the "growth" now...Home Rule will decide we need new state of the art police departments, fire departments & while we're abusing Home Rule power, lets throw in another grade school, high school, library & costly statues too! Oh yes...this is one of the best thought out plans ever! So glad the Village planned this with blinders on & with total disregard for long-term impact on our community.
Go 9750!
Woo Hoo!
Best day ever - NOT!

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Yellow Dog

8:30 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

It is time to Act!!!!
Is anyone interested in helping me stop this disaster?
Here is my plan:
1.Orland Park Village must have a constitution or city charter. This would spell out the rights of the citizens and the limits on the government. I would bet, it does not give them the right to be a bank, or engage in commerce, or risk taxpayer money in business ventures.
2.If above is correct, file a lawsuit. I mean multiple lawsuits.
3.Village Officials have to carry an errors and omissions insurance, file multiple claims with the insurance company.
4.Have hundreds of Orland Park citizens file Freedom of Information Act forms with the Village. If we have 500 citizens file 20 Freedom of Information Acts forms requesting some data, the Village would not be able to handle the volume of requests. They are obligated by Federal to provide the information. The Village would come to a screeching halt.
5.We form a Political Action Committee and we can collect donations to cover the costs.

This is how we get their attention!!!!!! The have only approved the project, NOT SIGNED THE FINANCE DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I need help! I need an aggressive lawyer, who is not afraid to fight, I need a Web designer to put together a blog and run email campaigns.

We can beat these IRRESPONSABLE PROGRESSIVE POLITITIANS and give the power back to WE THE PEOPLE.

Who is in?
Brad Filmanowicz 708-937-5896 brad@1stchicagoaccounting.com

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Andrea Williams

8:43 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I'll email you Brad. I've done alot of research on what can be done to stop this and I think the approach that needs to be taken is through the States Attorney's office. I don't think that it would be very hard to convince them to open an investigation under the premise that they are neglecting their fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayers (misfeasance). They have the authority to make decisions within limits. For example, they couldn't take $65M and set fire to it in a huge burn pile on the village hall lawn and some may argue that is exactly what they are doing by committing the village to this deal.

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Megan James

8:48 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Brad- Good Luck...after speaking to a few attorney friends myself, apparently being a Home Rule Village, they can pretty much do whatever they want and never have to run it past residents for a vote. As for the Freedom of Information Act, the Village just one an award for being the most translucent towns on providing information and even have a section on their website to provide most of the information for you. So depending on what information you’re looking for, that might not work if the information is already out there. You may also want to follow up with Andrea Williams…she’s already created a facebook page to track all of this.

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OrlandMom

9:00 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

How do we find Andrea's facebook page? I've searched her name and there are tons of Andrea Williams out there.
Brad - I don't know what I can do to help but I will email you to stay in the loop on this.

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Kathy Quilty

8:19 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I just joined the Metra Triangle Facebook page!

Judy Makar

8:32 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathie: Sadly, and without the fluff, you have stated a truth. Is it just human nature to just wake up when things go badly? There is a huge baby boomer population out there so even though our homes are paid off, our yearly tax bill could drive us out of our homes. If this complex becomes a boondoggle, like I think it will in this economy, it will add to our burden that perhaps many people will not be able to afford in retirement. We could have had a beautifully redesigned shopping plaza and still had space in other areas for a village congregation spot. I also look forward to leaving Cook County.

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paul cervenka

8:33 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

We turned our local government over to several lawyers and special interests we call trustees and now were angered by the results. Government, has no business doing projects like this. Unless of course, your the mayor and you are connected to the construction industry unions and it's part of the plan. The one where they donate to you. Generously. It's very real. It's a power/money grab. NOT, build OP for it's future needs. Our needs are lower taxes! So, why couldn't the private sector get financing? or was that the buy in? What is the connection to Indy? the mall, now this. Where do we purchase these Bonds? or are they just for the privileged. Seven people put us on the hook last night. Never forget this. I video taped the meeting. All had well prepared scripted speaches. Lawyers? It made them feel good. Silly people,welcome to my hook.

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John Fotopoulos

8:57 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathy and Megan, we can never eliminate partisan politics. The city of Chicago changed to non partisan elections. Did the change make Rahm a non democrat? Unfortunately, Orland residents must start identifying candidates with parties and vote their ideology. We should always put people before politics, but it does not happen unfortunately when it comes to money.

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Megan James

9:39 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I tend to disagree with you. In local policitics, there are many independent who run who only wanting what's best for their community. I even voted for many of them...and some came very close to winning. I think it's time that we start voting for people who have alligience to the people, not a policitical party.

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Kathy Quilty

8:24 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

John Fotopoulos (not to be confused with John Paul) -- I think I am about as independent as you can get. I never vote for a political party, I vote for the person. I have had support from both parties in the past three elections. Unfortunately, the last election was the worst election I ever dealt with. It is sad that so many people will run for unpaid school board positions to gain a higher step on the political ladder. These people do not belong on the board. I feel I am loyal only to the voters and no one else. Before we put in the turf fields in D230, I sent an email to everyone I know asking what they thought. This was a big decision we had to make. I always ask people's opinion because so few people come to board meetings to tell us how they feel.

john nugent

9:05 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Whether you support this project or not, the financing is a big undertaking. at this point we all need to realize it will happen. it is our best interest to wish it well. Our village currently has one of the strongest commercial bases. two years ago you could complain about our vacancy rate. now it would have been hard pressed to find a second location for the halloween store. 5% vacancy is considered healthy. vacancy is way down for commercial. this is not true in many villages nearby. If the vision of this triangle ever happens it will be a place that attracts the visitors & residents alike. it needs the impulse of the at site residents to work.. people like going to the downtowns of Naperville, Hinsdale, downers Grove because of the walkability,. Bolinbrook & Burr Ridge both tried pretty successfully to create these downtowns with new malls. Our village actually has a hot rental marekt. If this was done & ready these would rent pretty well today. if they were rented it would help with the impending commercial development. I was against seeing Orland Plaza go. but if it is now a reality. we need to hope for the success of this when talking to friends & others outside the village we want to trump it up. if you trylu care about tyour tax dollars you should at least speak of the positives to outsiders. I do not think the village should build or finance it but that is a different point

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OrlandMom

9:27 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

John - I own rental property in Chicago. I see no way Orland Park is going to get people to rent for the amounts they are asking. Why would anyone pay $1,500 or more for a unit here, which then requires an hour train ride downtown, when they can live so much closer and for less? By the way, did you see the article just this past weekend where Metra said it's cutting the amount of service on that train line? Also, they said they were directing this at the 18-25 year old age group. Who in that age group can afford those rents? Most are college students so if they did rent it would be three or four of them to a unit and again, why come here when they can be so much closer to college campuses downtown? I just don't see how we are going to get renters and have a serious concern that when these sit empty they will be turned over for section 8 housing.
I also don't see how this very small area would ever compete with the walking downtown areas of LaGrange, Naperville, etc. I'm sorry but in this economy with the bleak outlook ahead, I don't see it working and will never support this in any way. I wont even step foot on the property once it's built.

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Megan James

9:51 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

John - this is the second huge project the Village voted for against the people wishes. Still waiting for the promised large anchor retail shops and movie theater in the now foreclosing Orland Crossing...and we didn't have to worry about financing that. So sorry, for a Village to so blantantly disregard how the majority of residents felt on this and hide behing Home Rule to push it through, I cannot in all good conscience promote moving to Orland Park on to any other unsuspecting friends or family. The Village has proven beyond a doubt to me that they can not be trusted to do what it right and I will not have a guilty conscience to lure some unsuspecting family into town to see what other bad mistake they will come up with next. (I'm sure my MS stalker will soon be trouncing on this).

Had they gotten a developer to come in with their own financing, I might be a little more positive about this. But the Village was wrong on Orland Crossing, and this one is even worse. Like I said before, Fool Me Once...Shame on Me...Fool me Twice...Shame on You.

Dee Emm

10:13 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

"...unanimously voted to have village staff pursue ways to reduce the “debt and gap financing participation” EVEY other project under the sun gets outside consultants. This is the stamp of death, done to pacify and fool residents into thinking they have input into their government.

"...unhappy Orland Park residents did not sway the village board." When will you learn? It's not your Village, it belongs to the McLaughin Machine. Now bow down, you mongrel dogs, and give us your money.

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frank

11:03 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathie, good comments.

John Nugent, I would not waste the time to contradict your comments.

Tempus fugit, and the ballot box is your only true alternative to this fiasco.

We should be grooming independent candidates now, candidates that will HONOR the people's wishes.

We should start looking for COMMON SENSE candidates. Yes, they are out there!

There are "comment contributors" who would certainly get my vote. Yes, I have voted at every election.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,

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Megan James

1:46 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

"We should be grooming independent candidates now, candidates that will HONOR the people's wishes." - Couldn't have said it better myself Frank :-)

Arthur Huff

11:11 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Well, its officially happening now...as if we needed a vote to tell us that. Hopefully in the end our elected officials will be proven right and this will be a shining example of the government doing a project better than the private sector could. Unfortunately I live in a place called 'The Real World' and we know that won't happen. It's been said before but I'll say it again, if this project was such a solid investment private investors would be lining up at the chance to turn a profit on offering the financing for it. They want us to believe that by the village financing it they will have control over what is built. Anyone ever heard of building codes? The village already owned the land there, right? Isn't that what they spent tens of millions of dollars on so far? Not only could they control the outcome with building codes, but they could have made conditions with whoever bought the property to develop it.
We're all so focused on eminent domain and bond sales (fancy phrasing for "government borrowing money") that what really matters has become lost. And that is that this village has been planning this for years and they knew it would come to this point. They knew successful businesses would be destroyed and they would be spending money like they had just won the lottery at a time when they were crying broke and cutting services, increasing fees, sales tax rates, and laying people off.

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Arthur Huff

11:15 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

And as far as the 5% vacancy rate, that might be accurate when you think about it. Consider that Orland Square Mall and Park Place Mall are nearly fully occupied. That's a lot of businesses so that keeps the numbers in line. What I'm interested in is how many commercial spaces are empty that were built in the last 5 years or so. How many brand new store fronts sit empty that have never been occupied or had only been occupied for a short time?

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OrlandParker

11:19 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I agree with Trustee O'Halloran in that I support the project/vision; however, I have publically stated in an editorial, on the comment boards here, and to the administration directly that I do not support the financial plan. I was disappointed in Trustee Dodge and his vote. His repeated claims on the use of home rule sales taxes to offset the cost should the project require financial support to pay the general obligation bonds back is just wrong. Consider the fact the state is talking about reducing, or not even paying any of the funds already paid into the state treasury and due to the local municipalities because of the state’s budget debacle. The home rule sales tax was Orland own tax created specifically to support roads and other infrastructure improvements needed within the village. So, if that money is being redirected to support this Main Street District project then most certainly taxes will go up to fund village projects, which were at one point funded through the home rule tax.

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Carol

11:46 am on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

The only reason, and I mean only reason, O'Halleran didn't go along with the others on voting is because he will soon be up for re-election!

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steve dzierwa

12:29 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

as i've stated in the past, the VOP really doesn't receive that much much money from me once the county has collected real estate taxes. if i were handing thousands of dollars, and possibly more, to the VOP, i'd be really upset! i agree that any increase in my VOP portion shouldn't happen, but i tend to look at the bigger picture and wonder where are all my tax dolllars to cook county (and other districts) are utilized?
some of you commenters have stated that you've never supported or voted for any of our village board members in the past, and i perceive that you've never appreciated the good things that have happened in OP over the years. perhaps you just prefer to be at odds with those of whom you did not support and that you abhor the fact they they have a pretty good track record in past performance?
be careful of what you predict(or wish for)! running all the village board out of office during the future election cycles will eliminate the experience needed to run the day-to-day needs and obligations of our village. it's a bigger job than most people can comprehend.
i, too, will vote again just like every election in the past. the only difference will be is that i'm not leaving, no matter what the outcome is. oh, and to the OP'ers who want to leave, if it weren't for OP, the present state of cook county and the State of Illinois would have made you leave a long time ago. i urge you to stay! things will get better.

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Mike

1:21 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Well, the Orland Park political brain trust has now rubberstamped the decision that it made many months ago. The recent town hall meetings to discuss the 9751 project were simply a show by the political brain trust to at least pretend like they listened to the people.

The brain trust must feel very smug to think they are a whole lot smarter than us ordinary peons.....because they clearly are deaf to what the people say. Now that they've spanked us and told us that they know best, I wonder how many of these smart politicians will step and take the blame if the thie 9751 project craters?

But again, the 9751 project probably everwon't fail....since the political brain trust can simply decide to throw another $63 million of taxpayer money at it.

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Tom Walsh

1:54 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

First off I would like to say that I am not sure how this will all end up but I am hoping for the best. I like the idea of having a downtown walkable area, but I do not agree with the fact that the village of Orland is financing it. As many others have said in a number of different ways it just does not seem right. That being said I have a couple questions and a points to make.

First Megan, is there any way you can prove that the majority of OP residents are against the Triangle Project? Do you have any numbers? You keep stating that the majority of the residents are against it, but I'm not sure that is true. It might be, but if you are just counting word of mouth or the people who comment on facebook or this page then I don't think you have enough people to consider it majority. Again you may be right and you might have some numbers to back it up, but if you don't you should probably stop speaking for everyone you think is against it.

cont'd in next post

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Megan James

3:52 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Tom - having attending meetings & being active in the community, I have more than average access to a high number of people in Orland Park then your average person, talking to neighbors, residents on the train, residents in my church, people in the grocery stores, malls, theaters, PPCH, health clubs, and schools & even working elections - every where I go, people are talking about how they were against this for one reason or another. For every 10 people vocally against this, there are only about 2-3 who tell me why they're for it...and 2 out of those 3 are only cautiously optomistic for it. Being in Market Research fields previously, common sense would tells me based on this, the majority are against this. Anyone who doubts this just needs to step out of the 9750 supporter box and talk to people in the community. I've even had some high school people tell me they didn't understand how the Village could finance this. So its not just seniors against it.

But if you have your own market research to prove me otherwise, I welcome seeing your proof also.

Tom Walsh

2:00 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Next Marge, I do agree with you that I have a hard time seeing young professionals paying 1500 to 2000 per month for a rental in OP, but your statements on the matter are misleading. For a little background I grew up in Tinley, went away to school, and when I graduated I lived at home for a year or so and then moved to the city. For me renting a place in the burbs was never something I considered. I worked downtown and I really wanted the experience of living in the city before I settled down. Anyways saying that someone could get a luxury 2 bed/2 bath condo for 2 grand anywhere in the city is way off. My first place was a studio (converted janitors closet) in Lakeview and that was $750 per month. A 2 bed 2 bath, especially with the amenities that they are offering, in my old neighborhood would have been well north of 2 grand and if you were in real desirable location like River North or Old Town it could be even more. Also my guess is that the 2 beds would be split and $1000 for a luxury place in the suburbs could be appealing to some that have no desire to live in the city. I had a lot friends like that.

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frank

4:05 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Tom Walsh, though your comment to Megan about numbers asks her to stop speaking for others, I feel compelled to express the numbers of a few of my common sense friends.

Let's say that ten of us have discussed this vote and in our discussions we have stated that we have at least two friends that are against the project. That comes out to about 30 people(VOTERS) that are currently against the project.

Now these naysayers probably have more acquaintances than myself and I can reasonably assume (based on recent village meeting turnouts) that these common sense people also abhor the shenanigans of our current administration.

I'm sure our next elections will bear out what Marge, myself and many others are currently saying.

Also, your own words regarding your housing history negate this complex ever becoming successful, in spite of your having many friends who might like the idea.

There are student loans, rental stipulations, and references to be considered.

And, young people are smarter now a days, the folks house is a better choice till they get on their feet.

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paul cervenka

4:05 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Orland park residents paid 25 million for the 159th street and La Grange road redo and no one said a word. State paid zero for their road. State found 22 million for the 149th street crossing of the Metra tracks though ! How much will we pay for the 2012 LaGrange road project? Thanks rep McCarthy. Last night Trustee Fenton went on for 10 minutes stating all the retail stores that choose OP for there locations. How about a bank that wants to risk capitol on OP! Now the truth. Off mall stores have been the anchor for retail in the last 3 years. Today, Wal Mart and Best Buy sales are in the trash heap and falling. They no longer provide the best product for the lowest price. There is currently 22 sq.ft. of retail space in the USA for every person. Highest in history. This is a loser. My trips through Mokena and Frankfort reveal stores that once resided in OP. Nice trend. The largest growing demographic in OP is retired fixed income seniors. That's who attended last nights meeting. That's who will turn out to vote next November. Lots of intimidation last night. Everyone fell right in line. Except Trustee O'Halloran. The gall. That 19th ward crap was running through there veins last night. All pre-planned and staged of course. Just a thought, if this scam goes like I expect, we can sell off our open lands to pay for it.

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Tom Walsh

4:08 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Megan: Ok so everywhere you go people are talking about it. That is hardly proof of majority, but you continue to talk about it like it is a fact. If you were in market research then you should know that the people who speak up the most are usually the ones who are against something and are not getting their way. There may be a ton of people for it that are content with what is happening and have no need to say anything about it.

Also I did not say it was only seniors against 9750. There seem to be many non seniors on this site that are against this plan. Although I guess I could generalize and say that based on the photos on this site and the video clips that it is all seniors against it, but I have no proof of that.

And finally I don't really support 9750. I don't really have a use for it. It looks like it might be great and I am not against it, but I am not out there supporting it. Also I dont have proof the majority of Orland Park is for the Triangle Project, but I don't need it because I am not making that claim. You on the other hand comment on this site everyday about how the majority of OP's residents are against this project and you have nothing to back it up other than "people you talk to."

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John Paul

4:47 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I'm not sure how you can accurately gage public opinion on this. If you could, I'd bet that the clear winner would be "not sure/undecided". It seems that peoples' opinions tend to follow what they think of the people involved. It also seems that many of you who oppose this project have indicated thay you never supported Mayor McLaughlin. Makes sense; if you didn't trust him before this, why would you trust him now? I would also guess that those who trusted Mayor McLaughlin before would tend to trust him on this now. You can throw out all of the statistics and "expert" opinions you want, but in the end, I think that most people will go woth their gut. If you think that the mayor and village board have been doing a good job all along, then you are more likely to think that the 9750 project is a good idea.

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paul cervenka

8:40 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Which mayor McLaughlin are you talking about? The one that told voters not to vote for the fire district bond issue or the one that is silent on such issues these days. I'm confused. The only person I trust is written on your money. Village debt is now doubled. Just in time for the next recession! Brilliant.

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Kathy Quilty

8:56 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

And one more thing John Paul -- in your bio on the Patch, it says you were the co-chairman of the successful 2005 referendum in D135. You were NOT! I was the treasurer and filed all the paperwork. Your name wasn't even on the papers I filed with the IL State Board of Elections. Deb Fiengold and Connie Trohke were the co-chairs. You weren't elected board president until April 5, 2005, the same day as the election.

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John Paul

9:05 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathy, I tought we've been through this before. The district had its own committee appointed by the superintendent. The three co-chairs were Me, Dave Manchester and Don Borling.

Please don't turn this into a "my committee was better than your committee" thing, we ALL worked very hard to make that referendum possible. Of course we never filed papers with the state because, as I'm sure you know, the district is not allowed to make expenditures for a referendum. Our focus was on crafting a message and coming up with alternantives if the referndum failed, not raising or spending money.

Kathie

9:58 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

People who drive their cars looking in the rearview mirror, eventually drive off the path! Stop looking back and move forward, you guys!

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Ashburn Sound

10:59 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

John Paul: I hope it is worth tanking your reputation for Jim Dodge. You say that you would run as a Republican if you did run. I have gone to at least 20 ROOT meetings and neither you or Jim Dodge have been to one.
If memory serves me right, both you and Dodge worked against Liz Gorman when she first ran for office. You both claimed she was a Democrat and now here the two of you are firmly backing a Democrat Mayor and Committeeman Dan McLaughlin, you care to explain?
Your right Kathy, his memory isn't so good.......

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John Paul

11:16 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Ashburn, I never publicly supported anyone when Liz first ran for County Board, but I did vote for her. I pretty much voted against all of the establishment candidates in that primary. I have not been active in partisan politics for a while now because I'm tired of investing time and money in a Republican party that seems rudderless, at least at the state and county level. The exception to that was when I helped Jim Dodge run for Comptroller. I did that out of friendship more than politics. If the GOP ever gets serious in Illinois and Cook County again, I'll get involved again.

BTW, I was also active in the Orland GOP when we turned over the organization to Liz and I was a proponent of that.

Lastly, Ashburn, stop all of this partisan purity nonsense. At least out here. The lines between Republicans and Democrats is blurry at best. What about Mike Madigan? Whose side is he on?

frank

11:21 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Kathie and John Paul, you both are sounding like playground mates trying to get your view across before the recess bell rings.

The topic was about the Triangle apartments, not the football field or the school boards. You sound like Gorman bringing up Stroger.

We need viable candidates without a party moniker and baggage. Rehashing fhe
past only keeps common sense from the future battles that the citizens of OP should win.

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John Paul

11:25 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011

I see your point, I was questioning why Mrs. Quilty ran with the mayor's endorsement with Schussler, Gira and Ruzich, yet now calls for them to be defeated because of the 9750 project, yet we somehow got sidetracked.

Kathy Quilty

7:25 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

I was just defending myself & answering the question from John Paul.

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Megan James

7:54 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

I get that! That's why I've decided not to respond to any more of JP's questioning of me. He's failed to provide me proof to back up many of his comments on other posts, so I no longer feel the need to provide proof for my own. Just going to ignore him so I too can get out of the constant defending-back-and-forth with JP too :-)

Tom Spence

7:55 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Hey Frank, it was the Stroger point that hit home. Stroger ended up with about 30% of the vote when he ran. While in office he was the poster child for incompitence and so is this group of clowns, she was right even he didnt lend his group of insiders 65,000,000.
Also get over the Gerald Maher bandwagon he had ZERO chance of winning.
Last but not least use your full name it would give you more credibility.

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Dave Wagner

11:15 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Many here on this site are pointing fingers, arguing points that have NOTHING to do with the topic, and the name calling has started. GROW UP!!!!! PLEASE!!!! It's starting to sound like a mud slinging campaign by those partisan polticians you are slamming. And it doesn't matter who started it. This 9750 project is not built yet. Granted, Mayor McLaughlin made it easier by bypassing the Finance Committee when it comes time to issue the bonds, and I doubt that O'Halloran will still be chairman of that committee when that time comes, but there are still obstacles to overcome. I'm not sure they have secured the bids yet, which must be $52.5 million plus or minus 5%. (This is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever read. It means that a bid 6% lower than the $52.5 mil can't be accepted.)
I've admonished the Trustees and the Mayor to read the Kane McKenna report, and the entire development agreement and I suggest you all read them. The bonding is most likely 2 years away, until that time they will use interim financing, probably thru a letter of credit from a major bank, which most likely will have a floating rate. This could be a problem, and is one the Board glossed over.

Read and learn, speak from a position of knowledge, and by all means, stop supposing and guessing. I am willing to help.

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OrlandParker

4:12 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

David,

I reviewed the Kane McKenna & Associates report, specifically the financing and am as concerned as you. Clearly this is a risky venture and has many moving parts and risk. The fact the Finance Committee has been bypassed is even more alarming. They identify recommendations on size and scope and more traditional funding being used ...which they say the village explored but were not feasible.

The bonds are for 20 years not 10. They are callable at the 10 year mark. The Net Operating Income, which is what will pay back these bonds could be adversely impacted by mutliple market conditions, and the village bond rating subjected to being downgraded.

Concerning to say the least. What options, if any, does one have?

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Dave Wagner

10:22 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011

To OrlandParker -

Options are limited at best, but what the future holds is where the opportunity may lie. My initial (as yet uninformed) thought is to stay on the Board to allow the funding proposals to go thru the committe process. It is a BIG deal, and the potential negatives for the board out weigh the positives. Granted they can contend that it is still a public process and thus have a defensible position, but it still looks bad. I fully understand and appreciate they don't want to, and shouldn't with respect to the financing proposals, revisit the should we or shouldn't we do the project. However, without the funding, the project can't proceed. Which makes the interim financing a point of contention for them. Say they have arranged the interim financing, and it comes time for the bonding. They then have an argument that they 'must' approve the bonds as they owe on the interim money. It is more likely that they will both be passed together as they wouldn't want to put themselves in that position down the road. Especially since it could be near the time for the mayor and 3 trustees to get reelected. So keep an eye on the agenda for the meetings and be there when the question comes up.

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that the project will go over budget, and additional funds will have to be approved. I surely hope that the projecy IS a success, at this point failure is too costly. The risk, however, is not going away.

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Andrea Williams

11:30 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011

Dave, have you heard anything about who the lender is going to be? There may be an opportunity there...just thinking out loud...to go at this from a different direction and throw some community pressure on the potential lender(s).

devcrabgrass

1:07 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

I do not live in Orland Park. If I did, I would say what questions exist now that it goes forward. The first question I would be asking is what time frame applies - when is ground breaking set for, and how long after that to completion and occupancy?

The second question, parallel to the first, when are bonds planned to be issued and sold, terms and conditions, and contracts let to build the thing?

I presume that with the village financing it the village would have some say in things such as whether prevailing wages will be paid; and whether union or non-union labor would be preferred.

The devil is in details. It is not just new jobs at this point, but who is to get them.

Also, how soon will voters be able to judge whether it's worked out well, or badly? The board's majority vote is now history. Where do things go from there is the viewpoint I urge citizens to take at this point. Look to how details can be best scheduled and handled to minimize the chance of failure.

Without a timetable made public, and disclosure/transparency on the issuing of the bonds, things are less public than they should be and that can only lead to greater distrust and ambiguity in the minds of voters. The village should at this point want to lay out a plan - if for no other reason than to prove they have one. And the more detail revealed the better to prove that the thinking has been invested before the decision to do it.

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Megan James

2:59 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

@devcrabgrass - I'm not able to help with all your questions, but the Village said that people can find out information about this project at anytime through their website. I don't think it has any of the answers for regarding the timeline yet, but these two links on their website would probably have the information if it's available yet:

This is their new downtown op website:

http://www.downtownop.com/main-street/

This is the link to the page that should include all the agreements, market research, and hopefully the signed financial paperwork when they're ready:

http://www.orland-park.il.us/DocumentCenterii.aspx?FID=322

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Andrea Williams

5:00 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

@devcrabgrass: There are people out here listening - people that don't have a lot of experience keeping tabs on government schemes like this one, but are determined to do it. Please keep the tips/guidance coming. It is appreciated.

Megan James

3:10 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Ok...a little off subject, but having to do with Orland - They're having a Public Works Auction on Saturday according to the Village's home page:

Public Works Department To Host Auction
The Village of Orland Park Public Works Department will host the annual public auction of the Southwest Conference of Mayors on Saturday, September 24, 2011, beginning at 11:00 a.m. at the Public Works Facility, 15655 South Ravinia Avenue. The facility is one block west of LaGrange Road and two blocks north of 159th Street.

Automobiles, trucks and equipment from member municipalities will be auctioned by American Auction Associates of Bridgeview.

A 25% deposit, a $200 minimum, is required to bid. All funds must be in cash or certified checks. Company checks will be accepted with a bank letter guaranteeing payment. All items are sold as-is, where-is without warranty or guarantee. Announcements made the day of auction supersede any and all printed material. All items must be completely paid for and removed the day of auction.

A public preview will be held on Friday, September 23 from 9:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. and at 9:00 a.m. the morning of the auction.

Auction requirements and vehicles and equipment for sale may be viewed on-line at
http://www.amer-auction.com/Sept%2024th.htm

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steve dzierwa

5:06 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

good words Dave. you've always spoken the truth as you see it and done so very eloquently. i've learned a lot from you. i agree, the name-calling and mud-slinging should be refrained from.
the who voted for who, and who backed who, and who got help from who, and who really did what really doesn't matter. the fact is that we all have the privledge to vote and that we exercise that. i'm not sure how many of the commenters here actually voted, but they know and it would be interesting to know the truth.
remember when i suggested that we swear in people who wanted to speak at public hearings at the plan commiission meetings BEFORE they gave their name and address? that way they had to give their real name because they were under oath.
thanks for the info Dave. i appreciate your input and experience.

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steve dzierwa

5:13 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011

oh, Dave, next time you decide to run for trustee, count me in on helping with your campaign. your knowledge and experience are good prerequisites for being a well-qualified trustee.

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Megan James

8:04 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011

I'm sorry but I need to ask some questions about home rule sales tax..not trying to be negative ...just looking for honest answers from all the legal experts out here for a better understanding:

Dodge states “We will have more than enough money in the home rule sales tax to make sure this never hits your tax bills.”

Its supposed to take 10 years to pay off the bonds, and the Village is basically saying that in the event there isn't enough revenue generated to pay off the Bonds, then the "home rule sales tax" will be use to cover it, instead of having to increase out taxes.

My question is more of a 2-parter. First - For communities that have a "home rule sales tax" fund, what are these funds usually used for? Again, not trying to be a negative, but being that no other community has financed retail or apartment centers, I'm just trying to understand what the purpose of having this fund is meant to be used for in general.

Secondly, since this project is supposed to take 10 years to pay off, while they say we have the home rule sales tax to cover the debt now, a lot can happen in 10 years. While I pray no disasters hit our town, is it possible for a sudden urgent need to come up that would force them to allocate some or all of the home rule sales tax towards the urgent need?

Again - I'm just asking for a better understanding of it all. Thanks for any geniune, honest answers.

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MS

8:45 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011

I'm not sure I have the right answer to your questions, but I read that the Village brings in about $28 million a year in sales tax revenues. Assuming all things are constant, in 10 years that amounts to $280-300 million. I dont know if that means that they save a portion of the sales tax each year to be sure there is something in the end or what... Also, according to this information (http://www.orland-park.il.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1226), OP is 5th in the state in sales tax revenue. Sales tax revenue is 26% of the annual budget... I think Sales tax dollars are used for capital projects and business incentives but i am not sure.

IF a disaster hits our town, I doubt sales tax will be enough to fix any problems. IEMA and FEMA would probably provide budget boosts.

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Megan James

11:38 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011

Thank you MS. Again, not being negative...just asking questions for further clarity on my end. & I apologize, I didn't mean "disaster" as in something that IEMA or FEMA would handle. I totally understand state & federal funding is provided for those situations when an area is declared a disaster zone by them. But I'm assuming communities who have the Home Rule Tax Fund, use that as a "savings account" for emergencies also. It makes sense that it would be used for business incentives and captial projects. But I would like to know if there are situations or unplanned expenses that could occur during the next 10 years where some of the $62m earmarked for this project may get used first? I do tend to agree with your thinking, that over 10 years, if we pull in about $28m a year constantly, in 10 years that would be about $280m, which is more then the $62m needed for this project. But I'm assuming that we already use this Home Sales Tax fund in to pay for other village projects regularly. So again, not trying to be negative, I'm just wondering if say their was another lawsuit, need for a new school, or say our state or fed gov't were too broke to provide funding, is it possible the full $62m is not 100% guaranteed to be there?

Just trying to feel more confident with Home Sales Tax fund being the back up, especially since state & fed govts are not sending as many funds for things like they used to.

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Dave Wagner

2:25 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011

The Village, in their budget, plans to use the HR Tax to pay the interest on the existing debt, if I read it correctly. (Note: The budget contains 2009 actual information which was based on 15 months due to, I assume, a fiscal year change). Given that the likelihood of this revenue source decreasing is high, one would have to conclude that using this source on an annual basis going forward would cause possible funding shortfalls to other Village prorgams and/or projects (roads, parks, etc). Sure, the Village pulls in a lot of money from many different sources, but the two biggest changes (2009 actual equalized for 12 months and 2011 Budget) are an increase of $3.5 mil in fees for services and an increase of $2.3 mil in Real Estate tax revenues. State income tax revenue and miscellaneous (other) tax revenues both declined. What my point is - Revenues for fees and services and real estate taxes come from residents and businesses, as do State income taxes. The portion of sales taxes (relatively constant) comes from residents, but more so from others not living in Orland Park. Property Tax revenue and fee revenue went up about $5.8 mil while all the other major sources remined the same or fell slightly. Essentially, the residents are already paying more, and we probably can expect to pay more.
But rest assured, as election time approaches, I think we can count on a rebate of our Orland Park portion of real estate taxes. Or maybe sooner, just to make us all happy.

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