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Residents to Village: Apartment Complex Too Risky

Hundreds of Orland Park residents attended a public forum about the luxury apartment complex to be built in the Main Street Triangle.

 
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Orland Park’s Village Hall was filled to capacity Tuesday night, with people spilling out into hallways and the lobby waiting to offer thoughts on the luxury apartment complex to be built in the Main Street Triangle.

For about three and a half hours, residents took time at a podium to let village administrators, staff and developer Flaherty and Collins know how they really feel about a 295-unit luxury apartment complex that likely will be built on the west side of the Main Street Triangle

The most frequent concern raised is the financial risk to the village by loaning $38 million initially to Flaherty and Collins to build the complex. While village staff and administrators say the financing has been studied and is safe, many residents still have doubts.

The public forum was scheduled in the wake of an open house last week that quickly descended into a cacophony of arguing.

The village board is scheduled to vote on financing the apartment complex during the Sept. 19 meeting.

Related Topics: Commissioner Liz Gorman, Main Street Triangle, Mayor Dan McLaughlin, and Ninety 7 Fifty on the Park

Karen Foley

7:19 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011

This project is ten years late. Ten years ago, upscale condos would have worked. In this economy it will turn into subsidized housing to pay the bill.

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John Paul

12:40 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

You are right, that's why they are building apartments instead of condos. If I were starting out now, I would not be in any hurry to buy a home and these apartments would be very attractive to me.

John Fotopoulos

7:36 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011

Our elected officials should concentrate on bringing jobs to Orland Park. We should be using incentives to attract major corporations that will provide jobs. Issuing bonds to be used for a private company and private cause is wrong. Furthermore, the state of Illinois is losing businesses to Indiana every week and here we have our local officials giving the business to an Indiana based company. I am certaIn that an Illinois developer would gladly construct this project. I pray that the elected officials vote no to this project.

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Paul

8:03 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011

There are Hundreds who believe in this project and believe in our future!! Please do an article on those who support it !! .. WE WANT INVESTMENT IN OUR CITY.. WE WANT GROWTH IN OUR CITY!! HELP THIS CITY GET THE IMAGE IT DESERVES!!

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Megan James

8:52 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011

@Paul - For ever 100 supporting this...THERE ARE A THOUSAND WHO DO NOT BUT STILL BELIEVE IN OP TOO!

Aside from the false truths being told by the board, those who don't support this want more important things then just retail & apartment growth.

1. We want protection from crime. You can read in the police blotter daily about shoplifting, gang fights, robberies & scam artistics coming into our town. With this complex right on top of the train, its will to lure even more criminals into town. So what extra protections are going to be put in place to decrease criminal activity & prevent more? That's surely going to cost the taxpayers more to hire more police and firefighters to help protect us & the added residents.

2. Those of us against is are also like John above. A better way to insure growth would be to lure in more corportations with professional paying jobs first, like Carmel Indiana, Schaumburg, Naperville and Northbrook have all done.

3. As for OP's image....It's OP's Village Board ruining Orland's image, not the lack of shopping & apartments. Who in their right mind wants to come live in a town where a Mayor is on the record telling folks to "gulp" their disagreement when he wants something they don't? Or trustees who don't care what the majority want & justify their actions using Home Rule as the reason they can do what they want?

4. And why not use local developers? Our guess - they know it's too risky.

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John Paul

12:44 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

Typically, people who oppose a major initiative like this one, tend to be very vocal about it while those who either support it or have no strong opinion tend to be silent. Even if those who came out on Tuesday represent only a tenth of those who oppose this project, that's only about 3000 out of 50000.

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Sue N.

10:42 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

John Paul - I have to disagree with your stastics. As part of my job, I've review numerous research studies done regarding those who are happy and those who are unhappy about various services, which could roughly apply to approval ratings of government actions also. Generally speaking, if you take the sample of people who showed up at meetings on a controversal topic such as this, it gives you a reasonable breakdown of the entire communities thoughts. So lets round our numbers. There are roughly 55,000 OP residents. Lets just say roughly 45,000 are old enough to actually vote. At these meetings, there have been approximately 200 people in attendance both for an against this project. Having attended some of these meetings, there about only 30 folks in favor of this project...but add in all the officals....I'll generously round it up to 50 in favor. That means based on average research assuptions, only 25% of the OP voting community is actually in favor of this project. And there are those who don't care either way & wouldn't attend, which generally end up only being 10% on hot issues. So if there are 45,000 people able to vote in Orland, more realistically, it would probably be more like 11,250 in favor, 4,500 not caring, and 29,250 opposed.
Of course, the true numbers of how many are actually for or opposed will probably be reflected in the next few elections.

Todd Probasco

8:33 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011

Our local government has no business getting involved in this type of project. If this idea gets approved does that mean any developer can expect the village to help fund their project? It is obvious that the reason the elected officials are trying to push this crazy idea thru is because of all the time and money that has already been wasted on the Main Street Triangle project. Enough is enough. I am sure the angered residents will not forget this come election day.

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Jaime McCorry

9:44 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011

Shouldn't we attract larger businesses with better paying jobs first so that we actually create a populace who will rent these expensive apartments to be closer to work? The strengths of the other villages listed (Schaumburg, Naperville etc) is that they have a huge base of large corporate businesses that keep all those employed people in their towns to shop, eat and live! Jobs first, housing will follow naturally!

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Andrea Williams

12:22 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

You're right. The trustees could have gotten Andrew to stay for a whole lot less than the $65M of our money being being thrown at the McLaughlin Triangle.

Dee Emm

11:09 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011

"The village board is scheduled to RUBBER STAMP financing the apartment complex during the Sept. 19 meeting." .... What residents want and don't want doesn't matter. Alll that matters is McLaughin's "legacy".

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Megan James

11:23 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011

Sadly, I couldn't agree more. In fact, I still believe from the huge pile of dirt and hole in the ground between the train parking lot and Orland Plaza, that they've already begun digging for this complex's foundation. Never intending to change their minds after giving residents a forum to ask questions and object to this being built.

I just hope everyone not only remembers this during the next election, but hopefully, they won't just depend on others to show up and vote, that they'll do their own homework and cast their vote during both primary and general elections. Keep in mind folks...here in Orland....trustees are voted into office in the Spring...not just the Fall elections. So please...don't skip. And if you haven't taken advantage of the early voting...it's wonderful! No longer should anyone have the excuse that work, children's activities or not being able to get a ride to a poling place on specific day. You can basically choose one of about 20 days...and if that still doesn't work...there's still the good old fashion absentee voting. And a parents of kids about to turn 18....get them out there to vote too! Even those away at college can vote absentee!!! We might not have much of a voice in decisions like this, thanks to Home Rule. But you do have a voice in choosing who makes the deicision on when we can vote on issues like these. It's called voting. Please...please...please...don't forget this. November's right around the corner.

Carol

12:40 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

Why not let the people of Orland Park vote on whether or not they want the Mc Laughlin Triangle? The Village Board has the job of running Village and should not
be involved in loaning companies money. Everyone knows if the Village Board wants
it, they will get it. But let the people decide for once! With a failing economy, this is
not the time for a project like this. Like the lady above said, maybe 10 years ago,
but certainly not now. They have driven so many good businesses out of town
already instead of trying to work with the businesses who are the backbone of Orland Park. They want everyone to be upscale and screw the other people.

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Megan James

1:05 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

@Carol - funny thing...I asked at the Open House what the difference between allowing residents to vote to approve other bonds, verses why were weren't being allowed to vote on this one. The answer from the Village's own attorney - NOTHING! Because of the number of residents in Orland Park, we're considered a Home Rule village. Which means, our elected officials can make the decision for every one of these bond issues with never having to put them up for a vote to residents. The fact that they decided not to put this one up for a vote tells me they knew right they would not have gotten enough residents to vote in favor of it. So in order to push this dream into a potential residential nightmare, they made the decision not to put it up to us to vote on.

My only advice to everyone....make a note of everyone of these folks names so you know who not to vote for during the next 4 years. They won't let us vote on what matters most to us - so don't vote for them again. A few of positions come up for re-election every spring and fall during the next 2-4 years, so don't let one more election go by without voting.

Arthur Huff

12:56 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

Will this development create enough jobs to offset the jobs that were lost by tearing down the existing businesses?

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devcrabgrass

1:09 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

I am not an Orland Park resident. However, those writing about this or that at the next ballot box chance need to ask your mayor and the Flaherty people what the construction time frame on the project will be. If MM James is wrong, and ground is broken end of this September, how long will it take for it to be built, plus how many months after an occupancy permit is issued, to know the vacancy/occupancy rates that actually happen, never mind uncertain forecasts by project proponents.

In short, how will you know success from failure, by the times you get to vote? Will you, or does delay cut against having that timely knowledge?

It is worth a thought. I am certain that Flaherty, who had an arson experience in Indiana on that Cosmopolitan project and had to restart, but stuck with it, can give you the timeline - if you ask.

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Scott Arquilla

1:12 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

I agree with most of those above who have negative feelings about the Metra Traingle project. This Village's job is to provide the best village services (which the Board does) and to promote private investment which will bring jobs and revenue. It is NOT to be the major investor is a rental housing project. I do not believe than any of our Board Members have any real estate development background. Why should we believe they know what they are doing? If it is such a great idea, why aren't any local developers jumping at the opportunity? In the end, if it fails, we are on the hook. I still have never seen an exact to date total of our Village investment in that corner despite the claim that all the 'facts' are transparent.

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Andrea Williams

4:38 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

The reason private developers aren't jumping on this is the same reason the village has to play banker: the project costs more than its value, so responsible, accountable, financial professionals (ie. the bankers) WON'T LEND THE MONEY TO THE PRIVATE DEVELOPERS!!! Folks, the reason the banks will loan the money to the village is because they have their UNLIMITED taxing authority to back up their creditworthiness - in other words, access to each and every one of Orland's citizens' checkbooks in the event the project fails. Nice - huh?

MS

2:46 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

I like Megan's comments @Paul - "For every 100 supporting this...THERE ARE A THOUSAND WHO DO NOT BUT STILL BELIEVE IN OP TOO!"

It makes it sound like a horde... and that Paul's gizzards will be over run by it if he doesnt relent LOL.

Anyway, I just want to make an observation: snow birds. I saw lots of seniors in attendance. I dont see why or how that could be representative of the wider population. We all know that seniors tend to be more politically active. We all know that seniors have the time to show up. But, I think that if most younger residents were indeed upset with this project, they would come too-- especially in this economy. Something tells me, though, that Generation Xers and Generation Yers are probably in favor of this project. National trends and market studies support this type of development and why would we be any different?

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Dave Wagner

2:57 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011

I'd like to thank those on the Village Staff for their time, effort, and professionalism in the preparation of the materials, the work with the proposed developer, and their attendance at the recent public meetings. I would like to thank the residents for taking the time to have their voices heard. While helpful in cases like these, it is always more helpful to have your voices heard on election day, regardless of each person's view of the outcome, perceived or actual. I would also like to admonish residents to afford The Board and the Village Staff the respect that anyone would otherwise expect for themselves. I watched the above video and was not surprised, but rather disappointed, at the actions and comments from some residents who spoke at the meeting. It looked more like a circus at times rather than a Village Board Meeting. Laughing, cheering, and talking down others is neither funny nor appropriate. I speak from experience when I say that it is nearly impossible to have an intelligent discourse when so many show little regard for the process.

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Paul Aubin

11:04 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

Mr. Wagner, I was there and I am proud to say that our Board and Staff could not have been more professional. They were courteous and tried to answer each question as accurately as possible. The problem was no one was listening. Obviously there was another agenda. Your comment is well received. Thank you.

John Paul

12:39 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

Folks, some of you keep talking about the corporate offices in Schaumburg and Naperville. First, Schaumburg is near an airport, Orland is not. This has been the arguement that Rep Jackson has been making for a third airport.Second,Naperville is not in Cook County where property taxes are higher for businesses, but in a county where taxes are less. Why is it so critical to have these types of jobs in the village limits of Orland Park, when Orland residents can easily comute to these jobs downtown? Its location and demographics make Orland Park a prime retail center.

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Andrea Williams

8:50 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

JP, the village staff/trustees were the first to make comparisons to Carmel, IN and Naperville in their argument to build this type of development in the first place. Those in opposition have responded that those communities are not the same because each has a huge corporate base that supports those communities with corporate taxes and high-paying jobs.

Let's look at per capita income in these cities: $30k in OP vs. $48k and $85k in Naperville and Carmel respectively. Similarly, median household incomes are disparate: $67k in OP vs. $102k and $90k in Naperville and Carmel. The numbers don't lie. I would argue that Naperville and Carmel are in a better position to support this "downtown" idea based on their income levels; there is simply greater affluence in those communities to support that type of retail development. That may be the reason Naperville and Carmel have the private sector footing the bill for the development in their towns, not the taxpayers.

Note: I took the numbers from Wiki - admittedly not the best source, but good enough to get the general idea.

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Andrea Williams

8:53 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

I also have a problem with your premise that we don't need corporate headquarters here as people can commute downtown to work. If you are banking on the commuters, you are competing with every other community that sits on the train line and the city of Chicago itself. Working downtown does not even loosely tie people to Orland Park. What anchors people to a community are jobs - well-paying jobs. Is it wise to put all your eggs in the basket of those that have to leave your community to earn their wages?

My husband and I are a perfect example. A number of years ago, we both worked at AT&T at their huge corporate campus in Hoffman Estates. We moved into that community. When my husband started working downtown, it opened up the entire Chicagoland area for us to consider living. Ultimately, we packed up and came here. The good news is we had lots of choices and ultimately picked this great village. However, we are in our forties and raising a family – not a consideration for the young professionals we are going to be looking to attract to fill those $1500 apartments.

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Sue N.

11:15 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

John Paul - At the open house, I listened into to a group who argued that young adults working downtown would rather pay $1500 a month to live downtown instead of commute out of Orland. Two of the Village representives responses were:
1. They were misquoted by the media that they were targeting young professionals who worked downtown. They were hoping to attract any young professionals who worked in the area and wanted to move here. Without corporate paying jobs in town, there won't be many working professionals looking to live and rent into town.
2. The reps also said that they were banking on having this complex to attract more professionals into our commutity, so THEN they could use that as means to attract the corporations into town. Hoping to show they have rentals and a train that could bring their workers into town. However, if you follow Metra news at all, using the train is not good idea because not only does the Southwest Service have the 2nd lowest number of trains in all of Chicagoland, Metra is looking into cutting this line's service to save money. So without a train to bring professional into town, your left with mostly minimum wage retail workers in town, who can't afford the rent.

So, to me Orland reps is basically admitted to having a dream that has "the cart before the horse" .

Todd Probasco

9:12 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

This issue is very easy to solve, put it to vote and let the tax payers decide. If the elected officials are so confident in their decision they would have no problem letting the residents vote on this.

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Andrea Williams

9:43 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

That would be wonderful, wouldn't it? Won't happen - the Mayor and the trustees' "Father Knows Best" attitude doesn't accomodate that. The worst thing to ever happen to Orland Park is "Home Rule."

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
~Abraham Lincoln

Todd Probasco

10:37 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

No one or group of elected officials should ever deprive the people their right to vote.

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Andrea Williams

11:55 am on Friday, September 9, 2011

The residents of Orland Park did an excellent job selecting two very astute businessmen to serve on their village board - Jim Dodge and Brad O'Halloran. Where are they in all of this? They know better! Jim went to one of the best business schools in the country - he knows this is a rotten egg. Brad has been wildly successful in his own ventures - he knows this is not a recipe for success.
To Jim and Brad: Why are you two letting our mayor, your longtime friend, walk off the edge of this cliff? By supporting this project you are essentially giving him and our village the final shove....why??? Gentlemen, please step-up to the task the residents asked you to do and lead us out of/away from this potentially crippling financial mess. We voted for you because of the unique set of skills you bring to the table, please use them.

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Arthur Huff

12:10 pm on Friday, September 9, 2011

This conversation (not just this article, but the ongoing conversation) has become very convoluted and I don't think it needs to be. I don't care that this is a risky real estate venture that Orland Park is getting into. I care that they are getting into a real estate venture in the first place. I don't care (even though I asked above) whether or not the jobs that were lost by tearing down Randy's and the others will be replaced. I care that the government used a controversial measure to remove successful businesses. It seems to me that the conversation has shifted from outrage over how the village did this to whether or not it will work out in the end. Probably because of the inevitability of it.

If there was an open field at the northwest corner of 143rd and LaGrange that some developer came in, bought, and had the plan and financing that the village is offering, I would say its a great idea. I've said before that the plans look very nice. For me, my outrage is aimed at how we got here. Millions and millions of dollars spent at a time when the village is crying poor. Increased fees and high sales tax. Employees were laid off.

If there is a demand for $1500 a month apartments, and I'm sure that's a conservative estimate since they are still selling the idea to us, then that is wonderful. Personally I'd rather save for a few months before dropping $1500-$2000 a month on an apartment to then sit on a train for an hour, but to each his own.

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Mike

3:30 pm on Monday, September 12, 2011

This “debate” between taxpaying citizens and “Leadership” (i.e., the Mayor, the City Manager, the Trustees, etc.) regarding completion of the Main Street Triangle Project (the Project”) is becoming tiresome.

Leadership needs to grasp the obvious fact that village citizens today do not want to risk $60+ million of additional taxpayer money in a risky real estate development. Leadership needs to stop trying to sell its “vision” that may have been on point 10 years ago, but is too risky in today’s troubled economy.

The $44 invested in the Project to date is a sunk cost which was generally made during rosier times. Today is more troubled and much less certain. Please don’t try to save face for investing the $44 million by committing an additional $60 million of taxpayer funds to the deal. At a minimum, table the investment and revisit it during a more prosperous time in the future.

Leadership comes with a duty to listen to its citizens and to act in their best interests. Village citizens have clearly spoken. When will Leadership begin to listen?

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Dave Wagner

10:38 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011

I posted this as a comment in Response to Trustee O'Halloran's editorial. It is appropriate here as well
Sorry to say that while loyalty and appreciation are due to someone who has helped your career, i feel there are too many Trustees that feel they owe an allegience to the Mayor. I suggest that those people look up the definition of Trustee, I am sure you owe your allegience to the People of Orland Park. I also suggest that you all read the Kane McKenna report carefully, and pay close attention to the Summary of Recommendations starting on Page viii and especially the paragraph following item g) " ...the market studies....still suggest that the apartment market is thin. As a result, the initial absorption and pricing could be affected. In particular, as projected rents are below $2.00/s/f, the Project value is less than total cost."

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steve dzierwa

10:35 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011

FYI- the Miroballi family has decided to stay in OP. we just recommended to approve their redevelopment petition for the vacant Shell station @ 144th pl and LaGrange road. thanks for staying in OP.

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Megan James

8:17 am on Wednesday, September 14, 2011

Now if you could just recommend that the Village pay out that $2.7m before 2-14- so the rest of the tenants can move and reopen before 2-14...that would be great too! And don't let the Village fool you that they can't because of the court order. Court orders only say they have to "pay by" a certain date, never heard of a penalty for paying out before a that date. Just saying.

steve dzierwa

4:03 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011

Megan, i was just trying to state a positive. with all the negativity surrounding the 9750 project, i just thought that i'd share a little bit of good news.

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Mike

12:32 pm on Thursday, September 15, 2011

Tim, can you explain why you support the project?

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